In this episode of Real Talk, Student & Athlete Defense attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by Corrina Pysa, the group’s Director of Communications. Corrina’s background is in public relations, which is a major assets to the group’s reputation management clients
Susan Stone:
Welcome to Real Talk with Susan and Kristina. Today’s topic is Reputation Management for Students, which is an area that has grown out of our practice depending students of all ages who are navigating misconduct issues.
Kristina Supler:
Pleased to be joined today by Corrina Pysa. Corrina works in our Reputation Management team. She’s the Director of Communications. Corrina, thank you so much for joining us.
Susan Stone:
Thanks, Corrina.
Corrina Pysa:
Glad to be here.
What is reputation Management?
Kristina Supler:
So first thing’s first Corrina, why don’t you just start by defining what is reputation management?
Corrina Pysa:
Sure. So, we are seeing a real uptick in students who are being tried in the court of public opinion, whether it’s through social media or somewhere else online. And we see cases where a student did something offensive online, or maybe they were recorded doing or saying something unflattering, and then someone posted it and it went viral. And not only is their reputation now on the line, but their academic career is in jeopardy, too. And I do want to clarify, there’s a difference between Reputation Management and Online Reputation Management. So Reputation Management is really about shaping or controlling the narrative, or even hiding a person or a group’s reputation whereas Online Reputation Management focuses on the digital reputation of a person or organization, and basically what you find when you Google someone.
Susan Stone:
Hmm. That’s really an interesting distinction. I’m just curious, Corrina, isn’t everything now on your Online Reputation Management?
Corrina Pysa:
For the most part, it is in the cases that we’ve seen so much of it now with the popularity of social media and everyone being out there and having this craving for instant gratification, it’s so easy for something to go viral. So I would say, nine times out of 10 at least there’s an element of Online Reputation Management involved.
Celebrity Cases: Apologies Done Right
Kristina Supler:
So Corrina, why don’t you give us an example of someone, a celebrity who’s navigated an ugly situation in the court of public opinion, who did it really well?
Corrina Pysa:
Well, it’s definitely not unusual. Celebrities find themselves in hot water all the time because of questionable behavior. But for me, when I think about successful celebrity comebacks, there are a few that come to mind. So first Ariana Grande, you might remember back in 2015, there was surveillance video of her in a donut shop that went viral.
Kristina Supler:
Yes. I do remember that.
Corrina Pysa:
Yes. And it was embarrassing. And she was recorded saying she hates America. She licked some donut on the counter and never paid for them. And she got a ton of backlash for that and rightfully so.
Kristina Supler:
I thought it was offensive. I was bothered by it.
Susan Stone:
Me, too.
Corrina Pysa:
A lot of people were, but what she did was she wasted no time issuing an apology. She issued one the next day and she posted a pretty lengthy apology on Twitter. She clarified how much she loves America, how proud she is to be American. And then she also, in addition to that, posted a video apology on Instagram. She said that she was disgusted with herself and with her behavior. And she was actually pretty genuine in her apology, which is always important. Or at least she came across that way and she moved on, clearly, fans forgave her. She’s now incredibly successful. One of the most successful artists out there, I would say. She even poked fun at herself about it on Saturday Night live. So everyone’s moved on from that.
Corrina Pysa:
And then I would say another example is Michael Vick. He was the number one overall NFL draft pick back in 2001. And his entire career was derailed when he was caught, remember this? Running a dog fighting ring back in 2007.
Kristina Supler:
Yes. Yes.
Corrina Pysa:
So it was the prime of his career and he was arrested and convicted. He went to prison for 21 months. He spent two years out of the NFL. The Falcons dropped him. Everything was falling apart around him. And he did deserve all of that. It was an awful thing.
Kristina Supler:
Hi, Corrina. I just have to say when that case was going on, I had a case getting ready to go to trial with the same judge in Virginia and at the courthouse, there were so many protestors. People outside with signs booing him. And every time we went in and out of the courthouse, we had to walk through it all. It was a really big case and news event.
Corrina Pysa:
Right. And, and seeing all that it at the time seemed impossible that he’d be able to make a comeback from it, but he has. And it was not an easy thing to do at all based on how just seriously he damaged his reputation. But what he did was he repeatedly expressed remorse and he was sincerely apologetic. He didn’t make any excuses. And beyond that, it wasn’t just talk. His actions were backing up his words. He poured his heart into working with the Humane Society and lobbying Congress to get the Animal Fighting Spectator Prohibition Act passed. And he is still to this day active in that work. And he’s praised by the Humane Society now for really putting a spotlight on such a serious issue. And he also got back into the NFL and had a pretty successful football career.
Corrina Pysa:
So looking at both of those examples, and those are just two in a lot of famous cases, it is possible to move on from really ugly situations like that.
Susan Stone:
And I think what’s so nice about what we’ve developed as a team here with you, Corrina, is that we have someone skilled, like you are to craft those apologies that don’t come out as perfunctory. Like, “Oh, I’m sorry.” But we really work on developing apologies that are heartfelt, meaningful and combined with action. Yes.
Corrina Pysa:
Yes. I mean, the messaging is so important and the intent behind that messaging. People can smell out BS. It has to be genuine. There really is an art to it. And we’re involving the client in that process to make sure they’re really a part of our team as we’re developing strategy and moving forward and figuring out how we’re going to get through this with them.
Legal Approaches to Reputation Management and PR
Susan Stone:
So I’d like to explain to anyone listening out there, how our practice combines the Reputation Management with you, Corrina, and legal work. Kristina, can you give examples of cases that combined both skillsets?
Kristina Supler:
That? Sure. We’ve actually had a steady rise in cases for Reputation Management for students, believe it or not. Grade school, high school and college, we’ve seen a variety of different cases and situations in which our clients who maybe was 13, 14, 15 perhaps made a racial epithet online, or liked a Tweet that had very, let’s just say, for example, an anti-Semitic remark, we’d had a couple of cases with that. And then we’ve just also seen situations where a student’s activity and speech on social media triggered school disciplinary proceedings. So sometimes there’s this idea that well, schools can’t discipline students for what happens outside of school. And that’s not quite accurate. We’ve had a lot of different matters where viral postings ultimately led to students being expelled from schools. And so we get involved and handle the school proceedings and then, Corrina, you’re on the Reputation Management. And so it’s really a multidisciplinary approach to helping the client navigate a really difficult time.
Susan Stone:
And I’d like to add that we see the full gamut. We deal with cases where students do make true mistakes and are disciplined at school. And we’ve also defended students who have been falsely accused of being a rapist or being a racist. It seems like right now, it’s very normal to call someone out, use those words without really having necessarily the facts to back it up when you make that accusation and it causes huge damage. So there are times we’ve gone through the Title IX process, had students found not responsible, but they’re still being attacked online, even though they’d been cleared. Corina, what do you do when we bring you in on those cases where we’ve either had a student cleared at a student disciplinary process or even through a court system found not guilty?
Corrina Pysa:
Well, I do want to clarify, I think this is important. I am not a lawyer first and foremost. My background is in journalism. I spent about 10 years working as a news anchor and reporter at ABC, CBS, and Fox affiliates across the country. So that is my area of expertise is in media relations, communications, strategy, messaging, crisis communication. And I really bring those skills from my background as a journalist and then provide that communications expertise really to help our clients strategize appropriate messaging and navigate those crisis situations as successfully as possible. And at the heart of communication strategy is formulating a responsive statement. And when doing that, my focus it’s not inward on our client. It’s actually outward on the stakeholders. So who matters here? Is it peers, school, administrators, the police? For professionals, maybe it’s customers or business investors. We really do take everything on a case by case basis.
No Magic Bullet for Repairing your Reputation
Corrina Pysa:
And that is important. There is no magic, one size fits all formula here. We’re looking at everything on just a unique level, all the nuances and the unique factors that come into play. And I analyze whether the client’s problem requires a public statement or an apology. And I also work with clients on responding to media inquiries, navigating those media requests. Sometimes as a team, we decide that a statement should be made, but in private. So there are all kinds of different scenarios. My role is really to craft a statement that supports the overall legal strategy that we all decide on as a team.
Susan Stone:
Well, really what we’re doing is we have integrated law and communication strategies and it’s become even more complex with the internet. On the legal side, if someone is making a false statement, we have issued cease and desist letters and we can pursue internet removal. And if necessary, we can initiate litigation for defamation and other legal theories.
Kristina Supler:
Let’s circle back to apologies, Corrina. Earlier, you had mentioned crafting apologies for our clients. Is an apology always necessary in your opinion?
Corrina Pysa:
Not necessarily. And again, it goes back to every case really being unique. So a key question to start with is: When is forgiveness necessary versus an acknowledgement of harm? And without question from a communications perspective, forgiveness is absolutely necessary when are actual victims or when somebody has been harmed. However, sometimes an apology isn’t always possible. And then timing is really important, too. And Kristina, I know I’ve assisted you on a number of cases where there was a real concern about a parallel criminal proceeding.
Susan Stone:
Yeah. Kristina, talk about that. That’s interesting.
Kristina Supler:
So this is where there’s a real tension because when I put on my criminal defense hat, any criminal defense attorney, we live with the mantra, say nothing, say nothing. You have the right to silence. However, that legal concept is often squarely at odds with an effective communication strategy. So it’s not uncommon for our practice group to be navigating a criminal case or a student going through some form of a school misconduct proceeding, but there’s also a need for this parallel Reputation Managements. In fact, many of our Reputation Management cases, they actually began with school issues like a Title IX investigation or some sort of behavior that led to a charge for violating the school’s student code of conduct.
Kristina Supler:
It’s really important, over the years, we’ve seen that it’s essential for a coordinated strategy across the board so that we don’t have an instance where a student puts something online on social media, or maybe even make some sort of apology, but then down the road in the criminal case could be construed as an admission. And so this really gets to the heart of why a global crisis response team, why such a plan is just important.
Susan Stone:
Can I throw something out for both of you in terms of apologies?
Kristina Supler:
Sure.
Corrina Pysa:
Sure.
Is an apology an admission of guilt?
Susan Stone:
And I struggle with this still. You don’t want to say I’m sorry, and then have it construed as an admission and have it used against someone in a criminal context because that’s scary. On the other hand, if you say to someone, “Well, I’m sorry, how you feel.” That could be construed as not a real apology. Can both of you talk about that? Because I still wrestle with that.
Corrina Pysa:
Well, we say this amongst ourselves all the time, that this is an art and not a science. So we really are all coming together, looking at the intricacies of each case. And I’ll let Kristina speak more to the criminal side of things and avoiding admission of guilt, but we’re not taking a one size fits all approach, as I mentioned earlier. And so we’re involving the client, they’re a very integral part of the team. They’re giving us insight into their situation. We’re drawing on our expertise in dealing with these kinds of situations and then sometimes coming up with multiple scenarios. Okay. These are your different options. These are what we can do, including an apology. So it’s really just an entire strategy coming together. And then being very careful in that apology, not only to be genuine, but also to make sure you’re not getting yourself into even more trouble by issuing that apology.
Susan Stone:
Or sometimes we’ve decided not to say anything, we’ve come down that way many times.
Kristina Supler:
Yeah. I would have to say that. Let’s face it. The, “I’m sorry, you felt hurt. I’m sorry, how you feel.” No, one’s going to perceive that as a meaningful apology. I think the person who receives that is in some ways, perhaps even going to feel more hurt and offended. Like, “You just don’t get it. Do you?”
Susan Stone:
Yes, I agree with you.
Kristina Supler:
And in terms of demonstrating contrition remorse in a court to a judge, it’s equally, I think uneffective, not convincing. So, in my view, it really comes down to the timing of when the apology is made.
Corrina Pysa:
Right? And then when we’re talking about things from a communications perspective, the longer you wait to tell your story, the harder it is then to really control the narrative and help shape public opinion. Ideally, we want to issue a statement quickly, but it has to be the right statement. There’s so much that goes into crafting that statement.
Susan Stone:
I agree.
Online Reputation Monitoring
Kristina Supler:
So let’s talk about the internet where anyone can say anything, Susan, what do you think about Online Reputation Monitoring?
Susan Stone:
That’s a great question that we wrestle with. We’ve seen students lose college acceptances due to statements made by other students about them online or due to their own content that they post. And once a school revokes an acceptance, it is really hard to get an institution to change its mind. Corrina, can you talk about what we’ve done in those kinds of cases and how we monitor online reputation?
Corrina Pysa:
Yeah, absolutely. So I would say we do a pretty thorough job of really scouring the internet setting alerts so that we’re getting notifications, if anything pops up and just constantly monitoring social media and the internet. And if we find something negative online, we implement what’s called a Search Engine Reputation Management Strategy, which involves things like responding to negative content and pushing positive content. So it’s basically online spin control and there are really a lot of thoughtful strategies that go into it. And again, we are taking an individualized approach to every single case. No two cases are the same.
Susan Stone:
There’s a lot going on here.
Corrina Pysa:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Susan Stone:
This is constantly evolving, which is why we have this multi-disciplinary team at our firm to service our clients. And what’s even more interesting. And maybe Kristina, before we conclude, I’d love to talk about this. Every day, I feel like another platform is being used by students. We remember what it was just Facebook and then it was Instagram and then it’s Snapchat. Can you talk about the other forms we’ve had cases on?
Kristina Supler:
Sure. Now TikTok seems to be the platform that has tremendous popularity, but the bottom line for parents in particular is to just have open dialogue with students, have an understanding of what the trends of the day are for social media. And, we don’t all have to be proficient TikTokers, if you will, posting dancing videos, no one wants to see me and Susan dancing on video. But I think parents, it is important to have an understanding of just what the platforms are and what their functionality is in terms of, are students able to encrypt messages or lack photos or content somewhere else? I know we see sometimes is it? Oh, I can’t even remember. I think it’s Snapchat, you can save photos for my eyes only. And I think parents just need to be aware of what their students can do and there’s Instagram, there’s Finstagram. So when kids have their real account, but then their fake side account where they post the racier content, if you will. It’s just important to have some understanding of what social media makes possible.
Susan Stone:
And we’re always learning new platforms. And we had that one college case where there was political satire going on.
Corrina Pysa:
Oh, right. Right.
Susan Stone:
Thank you.
Kristina Supler:
It’s really interesting. Ladies, thank you so much. This was a wonderful discussion. And this is a topic that I find fascinating. There’s such a broad reach of issues. Corrina, thank you for joining us today. We appreciate your time. And to our listeners, thank you for joining us for this episode of Real Talk with Susan and Kristina. We’ll see you next time.
