In this episode of Real Talk, KJK Student Defense Attorneys Susan Stone and Kristina Supler are joined by Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic, an internationally renowned expert on sexual violence prevention, sexual grooming, child sexual abuse, and sexual assault. Topics that they discuss are about protecting children from sexual abuse. The conversation includes spotting signs your child might be abused, the best ways to educate your children against sexual abuse, and simple strategies parents can use to monitor children’s online activities.
- (04:11) Behaviors to look out for if a younger child has been abused.
- (04:48) Shocking statistic about sexual abuse by strangers versus known persons
- (06:52) Normal sexual exploration versus abuse.
- (08:55) Signs a developmentally challenged child might be abused
- (10:44) How to Investigate if You Suspect Your Child Might Be Abused
- (11:48) A Parent’s Best Strategy to Teach Kids About Protecting Themselves
- (12:38) A Study on Why Sexual Predators Avoid Certain Children
- (13:02) Why Some Kids Wait Until Adulthood To Report Abuse
- (13:26) How Parents Teach Kids to Critically Think About Sexual Abuse
- (15:14) Why Encouraging Early Detection and Reporting is Critical
- (16:25) What Types of Kids are More Likely to Be Abused
- (17:22) The Three Levels of Sexual Violence Prevention
- (18:36) How Erin’s Law Helps School Educate Kids on Sexual Abuse
- (19:27) Does Speaking with Kids about Sex Encourage Sexual Behavior with Kids?
- (21:44) Dangers of Online Chatting Apps and Kids
- (22:38) A Simple Strategy Parents can Use to Monitor Kids Using Devices
- (24:52) Rules Parents Can Put In Place to Protect Their Children
- (26:43) How to Encourage Children to Share Mistakes They Might Make
- (27:13) Patterns to Spot When It Comes to Grooming Children
- (28:29) Recommendation for Parents to Take Action Today
Susan Stone: Kristina, it’s really interesting to watch how our practice evolves. We talk a lot about how we started out in special education and then morphed into our college practice and our research misconduct. And for the past couple years we’ve been dipping our toes into representing victims of sexual abuse. And more recently young children who have been abused at school.
Kristina Supler: It’s really fascinating this area of law because so many people I think would say, what? What are defense attorneys doing here? But this is been a natural extension of what we’ve done across the country. And what is really particularly interesting about this work is just the idea of sort of parsing through, determining when children report allegations,what’s real, what’s play, what’s bullying and abuse.
And the more we dig in, the more you realize the complexity of the issues. And how many people out there are truly desperate for legal support.
Susan Stone: And what I really like is how the narrative has sh has shifted because when I was a little girl, a lot of sexual exploration, whichwhich today we would call abuse, was just tossed up in the air as playing house.
And it wasn’t just playing house. Young children don’t know how to process sex, and that’s why we really have to establish good boundaries to protect our children because what might seem like normal exploration might be very damaging to the actual child. And I think we’re more willing to admit that it’s damaging.
Guest today is really gonna help us parse through that a good Kristina word, parse.
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: Yes. What
Kristina Supler: My favorites. today we are joined by Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic, who’s an internationally renowned expert on sexual violence prevention, sexual grooming, child sexual abuse, and sexual assault. She’s a licensed clinical psychologist and professor of psychology at John J College of Criminal Justice, at City University of New York.
She’s also the author of Protecting Your Child from Sexual abuse, Sexual Grooming, and Sexual Violence, evidence-Based Policy and Prevention. Dr. Jeglic has published over 150 books, articles, chapters, you name it. She’s written on it and is very busy. Busy. Busy.
Susan Stone: That takes time.
Kristina Supler: Yeah. Dr. Jeglic, welcome and we’re happy to have you with us today.
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me today.
Susan Stone: Yeah. This is gonna be a tough topic. One that I know you talk about all the time. Yes. But it’s still an uncomfortable topic. So let’s just, it is, get it out from the gate. What are the signs that a younger child, and I, when I say younger, maybe we should define what younger means.
I think that’s, think that’s important. What is younger has been sexually abused. So could you help contour that out for us.
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: We generally use kind of prepubescent and post pubescent. And when we say children, we talk about, people under the age of 18. That being said, kids who are, developing language and they’re still younger, like six, seven, will probably react differently than kids who are understanding things a little bit more. 9, 10, 11, 12, kind of, you know, as they’re approaching middle school years.
It also depends on the developmental level of the child. You know, children who have developmental delays will, will behave differently to than, than kids, kids who do not. One of the hardest things is there is no, unique predictor of saying, you know, a child is behaving this way, therefore they have been sexually abused.
You know, we do, the only concrete evidence is, you know, if is physically observed by somebody else. And that happens very rarely in cases of childhood sexual abuse. So we’re often going based on the report of the child, which is lawyers, you know, can be very difficult to prove.
Some of the behaviors that we do see among younger children, are regressions in behavior. So, for example, you know, they may be potty trained and so they, they start wetting the bed. It may be that a child who has been previously more outgoing withdrawals and is now not sharing anything. You could see temper tantrums.
But again, this could be due to a large variety of issues physically. Obviously if there are any, physical signs of abuse, to the genital areas, that would be a strong indicator that something has happened.
You might see children not wanting to eat. They, and you also will see them protesting. For example, if the, generally an abuser is somebody known to the child and only 7% of the cases, is it a stranger. So we still tend to do stranger danger, right? We still are afraid of the stranger in the white van. But 93% of cases of sexual abuse are perpetrated by somebody known to the child. A third of them are family and relatives. The rest are kind of acquaintances. And a third of all, youth sexual abuse is perpetrated by another youth.
These are all things that are really important when we’re thinking about prevention. But going back to, to behavioral,manifestations is, Let’s say the child, used to go to Uncle Joe’s house and now the child is protesting, they don’t wanna go. That might be another sign.
Or they’re, they’re crying or they, they don’t wanna talk about something. Or they have secrets that they didn’t have before. So those are all, some behavioral manifestations. But again, it’s hard to then say conclusively, that that a child has been abused. We also tend to see more sexualized behavior in play, in younger children who otherwise wouldn’t be, exposed to that kind of thing.
Susan Stone: I don’t like secrets. I’m not a fan in a family.
Kristina Supler: no. that’s that saying Secret secrets are no fun. Secret secrets. Hurt someone.
Susan Stone: Ooh, I like that. Where did you get that?
Kristina Supler: Everyone knows that. I don’t know. Heard. I haven’t heard that one. There you go. That’s my, big peril of wisdom for you today. I love it.
Dr. Jeglic, look, you mentioned a statistic that’s really interesting. A third of, sexual abuse is perpetrated by other youth. And that just makes me think about the idea of when we were young, Susan, I think there were of different generations. There was still, kids played house. And you’d hear stories about sex sexual exploration Absolutely.
Mm-hmm. While playing house. Do you think that at the time, Do you think general gener in terms of where we’re at today, there’s been a shift in we’re not so willing to minimize bad behavior. Do you think there was more sexual abuse then versus now? Or we’re just more attuned to everything?
Susan Stone: Well, and I wanna bootstrap on that g cuz you called it bad behavior.
Is it bad behavior or is it normal behavior?
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: Sure. So a little bit of sexual exploration is normal, right? To see potentially what the opposite genders, genitalia look like. There’s some curiosity there. I think that’s part of, being a child. That being said, probably touching and doing anything more than that,could be worrisome and something that could be harmful to the child later on.
We recently. study of sibling sexual abuse. And,we surveyed a large number of adults who reported being abused as children. And 5% of them reported sibling sexual abuse. And it starts out, you know, I think a lot of people minimize that kind of behavior because they think it is normal. But, unfortunately in, in many cases it becomes abusive.
And so I think we need to talk to our children about and keep an eye on them. You know, Again, you don’t wanna overreact. A little bit of curiosity is normal. It’s hard to kind of, we, we’ve not done a really good job at understanding what is normal child curiosity and what is sexual abuse yet. I think that’s something that we’re still exploring. But I think one of the things that we’ve seenin, in recent years as we, we recognize the long-term consequences is that our boundaries have become a little firmer.
Where previously it might have been like, oh, we minimized things like that. We’re now recognizing that could be harmful. And so we are, we’re intervening and setting those boundaries much more stringently.
Susan Stone: Boundaries keep you safe. I always say that. We always say that. We represent a large contingency of students who are either on the spectrum or have other comorbidities. And especially with young children who struggle with that receptive language or expressive language.
It’s hard enough just to communicate and have a conversation with those kids. They’re so vulnerable. Absolutely. What would be the signs that a developmentally challenged child might be abused?
Kristina Supler: That’s a great question.
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: It is. And I think it’s still again, a challenge. I have my, a son as well who, has special needs. And it’s something that I think about as a parent. And I think it’s really, looking at the behavior and the acting out.
As a parent of some, as a child with special needs, you recognize that there could be other, areas or reasons that, you know, a change in routine, things like that, that the child acts out. And so, youagain, it would be looking at if they don’t wanna be around a certain person.
Obviously if there’s any physical signs of abuse.And again, regression, but it’s very hard. If there’s anything that you suspect, I think it’s just you have to, as a parent, keep it monitoring and increased supervision and guardianship, about your children. Because they can’t communicate and they can’t tell you when somebody is hurting them in that way.
The other issue that we see though is that kids who are on the spectrum tend to also engage in more sexually inappropriate behaviors as they grow up. Because, you know mm-hmm. kids have, as they’re going through puberty, they do have sexual needs. But because they don’t understand those boundaries, they might, not understand social cues it’s clearly. If somebody says no or they’re physically turning away, they may not recognize that as much.
And so that’s a whole other issue that we’re seeing young people on the spectrum who are being criminal justice involved when they’re really just kind of, you know, not they’re, they’re, they’re exploring their sexuality, but it’s being interpreted as sexual abuse.
Susan Stone: Well, when we have, cases where there has been abuse, we see either, cuz you mentioned this. Either more soiling or the opposite little and capsis the withholding of going to the bathroom. That makes sense to me because as you anyone knows, whoever potty trained a kid, potty training is about control.
Yeah. And dominion over one’s body. So what is the ultimate control? Either not going to the toilet and soiling and just saying, I’m not doing this or withholding. But how do you know whether and Caprices or extra soiling,obviously I think it always comes down to a control issue. But why? What would you do?
Would you turn to a therapist, a pediatrician?
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: It’s hard to tell. obviously you wanna work with your community. You wanna talk to teachers. You wanna think about what’s going on in the child’s life. There could be a lot of things that are going on, that could cause, those kinds of things.
You wanna see, talk to your child,within their abilities. You can’t conclude because a child, is experiencing a regression in bowel habits or they’re, withholding their bowel movements that they have been sexually abused. But I think, you know, those are things that, as a parent you have warning signs and that could be something that you’re investigating.
Are there opportunities where somebody could have acc had access to him or her. Taking them to the pediatrician for an exam, if that’s something that you suspect. I. Usually, there, there could be alternative explanations. But again, you wanna look at the, what’s going on with the child as a whole.
Kristina Supler: So you mentioned talking to your child about what’s going on. How do you, how does a parent teach a child, whether prepubescent or post pubescent, how to protect themselves from abuse?
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: So this is something that I both as a sexual violence prevention researcher and as a parent to three kids think a lot about.
And I think there, there’s a somewhat of a controversy because this is really one of the only realms that we tell, put the onus on a abuse. Abuse prevention on the kids. And in many other areas, we as parents and guardians and institutions protect our children. But here we talk about, talking to our kids about protecting themselves.
And I think it’s a hard thing to, to wrap your head around. But the problem is that the majority of sexual abuse takes place in public when we as parents are not there. in private, sorry. And when we as parents are not there. And so we want our children to be aware of some of the signs.
And this is where the sexual grooming, literature comes in. And recognizing when something doesn’t feel right, what do they should do and what they can do to protect themselves.
And so I’ve always been a very, you know, and I think this is the best practice right now is, is talking to your children from an early age, like using correct names for genitals from the time they’re born.
There was one study that’s really interesting that was done back in I think it was 95. And they survey individuals who perpetrated sex crimes against children about, how they selected children. And one of the things that came up is they said that if a kid knew their, the proper anatomical names from gen for their genitals, they stayed away from them. Because that meant that their parents were talking to them about these issues and they’d be more likely to be identified.
And just having that vocabulary. Being able to communicate that can be a protective factor. But just really having open and honest conversations because I think a lot of sexuality is couched in shame. And so one of the reasons that kids report,say that they didn’t report or that they were waiting until adulthood to report, which is very common, is because they felt guilt and shame about what had happened to them.
And so like really understanding that these are not shameful topics. It’s not shameful to talk about healthy sexuality. This is a topic that is comfortable in our family. That if something is going wrong that you can share that with mum or dad. And we’re gonna give you strategies. And then you practice strategies with them.
You can, you give them hypothetical so they can start critically thinking if something like this happens, what would you do? And then the kid, your child gives you feedback and then you give them, corrective feedback. If it’s not, maybe the the appropriate strategy, or if they could do something different. And you engage in conversation about those things.
If they’re, especially with adolescents, there are constantly things in the media, YouTube celebrities doing these things, different things or things happening at school. And you talk about them. How would you handle that situation? What would you do? If you were at a party and then somebody was, you said no and somebody continued to touch you, how would you handle that?
And letting them know that you’re always there and open for those conversations and available to help them should they get in a SI situation where they do need help.
Susan Stone: I like how you’ve normalized it. Taking the stigma away.
Kristina Supler: It’s interesting that, no matter what the issue is in terms of life’s challenges and what kids experience as they grow up, whether it’s substance abuse, sex, Just relationships in general.
So much of one’s ability to navigate those situations and navigate conflict goes back to just having some discussion at home in, in conversations when one is young.
Susan Stone: Absolutely. If there has been abuse, how does abuse impact the child long term in terms of ability to form healthy partnerships? Parent well, move past the pain and suffering. Or is this something that will stain and mark the person for life?
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: Well, the good news is that, and this is why we really encourage early detection and early reporting, is that the sooner the child and they get a, they get a positive response from those around them. If a child reports within the first year of the abuse happening and they get help and support, then the outcomes are fairly, positive, right? Like they will have a better outcome.
I think kids that hold it in and feel that guilt and shame, we know that the research suggests, unfortunately, that there might be psychological outcomes. There might be physical health problems. There might be economic problems. And so the more that we can do to support individuals who come forward and report abuse, and the earlier that we can identify that abuse is happening, the better for everybody.
And the better the outcomes will be.
Susan Stone: Are certain, culture is more vulnerable to sexual abuse? I know that we did a podcast not too long ago with a colleague of ours and he was sexually abused by a priest. So would you say that it’s more likely to occur in different settings? Or is it pretty even across the board, even across socioeconomic, even across ethnic differences?
what did this study show?
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: So basically the study showed that kids who are vulnerable are more likely to be abused. And you can be vulnerable for a variety of reasons. The biggest of which is lacking adult supervision. So you can have two parents. But if those parents are constantly away, and you’re, you’re not supervised, then that is when you know the perpetrator swoops in.
But we also know, and, and I think this is where we really as a society need to do more research, is that kids coming from racial and ethnic minority groups are at higher risk for sexual abuse. But we don’t have a lot of data to suggest that. Because,we just haven’t looked as broadly. We would know that kids who are special needs are at higher risk for sexual abuse.
We know that L G B T Qia A kids, are particularly vulnerable, to, to sexual abuse. Because again, there’s that, that wanting to connect and not feeling that you fit in sometimes during those really pivotal teenage years. And so that’s when kids are like, vulnerable and, and people can, can swoop in and take advantage of that.
And I think whenever you have a person who has power and control, like we know historically, obviously there was the abuse within religious communities. Or there are communities that are closed. And they don’t talk about these things, we’re hearing some of those more religiously closed communities where kids aren’t even given language about sex. They’re not taught about how to even talk about this. And they don’t even necessarily know this is abnormal behavior because they don’t know.
So it’s,I think it’s, that’s why it’s so important for us as a community if, when we think about sexual violence prevention, there’s the individual level, which is the child.
There’s the family level, which is obviously, parents and supports. There’s the community level, which is, you know, schools and other institutions that serve youth. And then there’s the society as a whole. How do we approach these issues? What are, what do we value and how are we gonna address them?
And so I think all of that comes into play. And when we have attitudes that are not supportive of children at any of those levels, it increases the risk for the child of being sexually abused.
Kristina Supler: So speaking of support at the community level, what should schools do to teach about sexual abuse? And I’m wondering whether, in your opinion, does general sex ed play a role in helping students recognize and navigate, potential abuse?
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: That’s a great question. You may be familiar with Erin’s law, which was passed at the federal level in 2015. Mm-hmm. And then many of the states have subsequently passed that. So it was named after Erin Merrill, who is a young woman who had been sexually abused as a child. And she felt like she didn’t really know what to do because nobody had taught her.
And so,states now,required to pass their own legislation to provide education to the child, to the parents, and to, and teach and to the, and teachers about how to prevent sexual abuse. I think healthy sexual education is intertwined with that because again, as we talked about earlier, feeling shame about your body decreases a likelihood that you will come forward, that boundaries can be crossed more easily, and I think parents are scared to talk about healthy sexuality because they’re afraid that it will promote the idea that there. They want their children to have sex earlier.
But the research actually shows the opposite. Kids who have body confidence and who feel comfortable within their own sexuality are actually more likely to postpone engaging in sexual intercourse, to engage in, you know, healthier relationships. And really thinking about how you approach the topic of sexuality, both, sexual healthy sexuality and sexual abuse is so important and it should really be a conversation that grows with your child, at the earliest stage is this is, these are your privates. Nobody talks about. Nobody touches your privates. But then, you know, as the kid gets older, a really understanding different levels.
Susan Stone: On a positive note. I know Kristina, you and I have talked a lot.
I think that kids today are a lot more body positive. Absolutely. Oh my gosh. They are proud of their body no matter what shape or size that body, it looks like. They don’t have the same ideas. I don’t know, but I think I’m seeing a lot less anorexia and bulimia and eating disorders. I think kids who are on the lgbtq plus are much more proud of their sexual identity and willing to use the pronouns that fit them better.
Mm-hmm. I think we’ve come a lot. We have a long way to go, but we really are making progress in this area. I
Kristina Supler: think that’s probably also though tied in part to communities and where we live. Still, I think it was a couple days ago I pulled up the New York Times app and reading all these stories about books being banned in various places.
Yeah. And students not having access to books on lgbtq plus topics. So I agree that we’ve come a long way. Long way. Long way to go. Long way to go. Long way to go.
Susan Stone: So Professor Jeglic, how do you square teaching kids to be aware of sexual predators on the internet, such as through the O omegle chat line?
And maybe you can tell our readers about a omegle. We’re familiar with it because we’ve had some cases that deal with people having inappropriate and unlawful conversations on the internet with the fact that this generation hooks up by meeting through apps on their phone. the country, the first thing
Kristina Supler: you do on a Friday night is open up your app and swipe.
Susan Stone: I always forget, swipe what? Swipe right. No, I get that confused.
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: Yeah. Yeah. I still am trying to learn and as a parent, I think one of the things is really to. get to know the apps that your kids are using and have them explain them to you. But omegle is one where you get matched up with a stranger and you’re supposed to have conversations like that was the original goal.
But as you can imagine, as many things on the internet have become, it becomes like a lot of people engaging in inappropriate sexual behavior. And it’s gone to the point where, young people have accessed or been groomed online by, by meeting up with strangers and some of it’s moderated.
Kristina Supler: And I think, about a quarter of all adolescents or young adults these days have been sexually solicited online. That’s a really scary statistic.
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: Yeah. And so it’s really important for to, to extend any conversation that you have about sexual violence prevention to the online environment and talking about and our kids are online earlier and earlier, right?
Like, so, you know, most, seven, eight. Nine year olds have their own phones. And as parents, that’s one of the hardest things because it usurps our guardianship. So I can physically see where my kids are in the house. they can be talking to anybody in the world while they’re on their phones. And so it’s really important to, have parental protections when the kids are younger. They don’t like that so much as they get older. But also have understandings that you’re gonna be monitoring who they’re chatting with and whatever else.
The other thing that I really strongly encourage parents to do is not allow phones in the bedrooms. Because we know that a lot of the online abuse happens when parents are asleep or when parents,
Susan Stone: I love that rule.
No parents are not around. Phones in the bedroom.
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: Yeah. And you start that from the beginning because then they’re accepting of that role, cuz that’s just the way it is in your house. It also, we also know as an aside that if kids have phones, their sleep is p poor and sleep is related to depression and all sorts of other problems.
Susan Stone: with adults, by the way. Oh yeah, exactly. I’ve really had to put away that phone as I’m trying to wind down and go to bed. Read a book and I don’t even mean a book on Kindle. Not that there’s anything wrong with reading on Kindle. It’s great. But I need to put my eyes. You want paper? I want the paper, and I wanna try to get to sleep with all that technology away from me.
Yeah. So I think it’s just good practice for all of us.
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: Yes. And also even like when they’re using their devices, have them in a common area because then you can like one of the things that perpetrators often do is they’ll say like, where are your parents? Are your parents around? Because they’re trying to get children to send sex, child sex abuse material, take pictures of themselves.
And your child is not gonna be doing that if. You know, a parent or a sibling or somebody else is around. And it’s best to do this to have kids use internet enabled devices in an area where you can keep an eye on them.
Kristina Supler: In terms of children using the internet and the having contact with predators online, unfortunately. What do you think, or what are your suggestions on how parents should talk to their children about horrors of society, like child pornography? And the difference between sending a cute picture, smiling with your friend versus stuff that’s contraband?
I mean, how do parents have that conversation in an age appropriate way with a child.
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: Fortunately when the kids are younger, you have all the protections in place and you can put the parental controls and all, pretty much everything that your children are using at that age, the younger age, will not allow them to talk to strangers.
That being said, having rules that you do not talk to strangers, you do not friend people who you do not know that are not at school. Even friends of friends, you know that an interesting study just came out by David Finkle, who, who’s done a lot of very seminal research on childhood sexual abuse, and he found of the kids, like about 5% of young adults had been groomed online. And of those 80% knew the perpetrator in some way. It wasn’t necessarily, their immediate friend, but it was like a friend of a friend. So like when you’re on Snapchat or on Instagram, it’s like, you know, an older brother or somebody else in the community. So that it’s not completely a stranger.
Like when we think about, you know, somebody you know off in another country accessing your child, it’s people within your community that are peripheral to your child who then tried to access them through these online devices. So they don’t feel as scary to the child.
But the other thing I talk about with my kids and that we, you know, kind of advocate for is really talking about not sending pictures to anybody you don’t know. If somebody sends you a picture that you don’t know, don’t, don’t send it back. Like my son was on some app and some, somebody sent a picture of a kid and I suspect it was an adult. And so that they it’s like a foot in the door technique, right?
So once you’ve sent one picture, it’s a lot easier to then keep sending other pictures. And then the goal is to, for these perpetrators is to try to get child sex abuse materials. So to try to get the children to send inappropriate to pictures to them. The other issue I think is really just, again, using those scenarios. So what do you do if this happens? How would you handle it? Who would you tell? And letting them know that you’re not gonna be angry with them. That you’re not gonna be upset. Because I think a lot of kids get really scared. They cross that line. You know, they might have said something that was inappropriate and they’re scared to tell you.
And just let them know, you know, we all make mistakes. If you made a mistake, it’s okay. Tell mommy. And we can help you cuz fortunately,they’re a lot better at getting pictures off the internet now than they used to be. It’s not a hundred percent. But the sooner that you are aware something happened that you can contact authorities and get something taken down. if something’s being posted.
Susan Stone: Is there a lot less personal grooming? Is it the grooming now that occurs more internet based? Or are we dealing with now two different types of grooming?
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: I think they’re intertwined. As I said, because 80% of the people are known to the individual. I think they start online and then it might be a component of the grooming and then it goes offline.
So I think that understanding and recognizing those red flag behaviors I think are really important. And having those open and honest conversations. With teens too, we’re seeing like a lot of,internet, BA based sexual abuse with sexting, right? So teens might, mm-hmm. You know, send a consensual picture to a boyfriend or something like that. But then that gets forwarded on or it gets put and then, the relationship breaks up. And then there’s sextortion and all sorts of other things. So I’ve always told my children, never send any pictures of yourself that are inappropriate. Because you don’t know what people are gonna do with that picture.
and it can be very harmful if that gets out.
Kristina Supler: Oh yes. We’ve got, we have many iterations of that factual scenario that you’ve just described.
Susan Stone: We get the call and listen to the tears. And it’s really awful.
Kristina Supler: It is. Yeah. it’s heartbreaking. It’s heartbreaking. Dr. Jeglic you’ve provided our listeners with so much information and food for thought today.
We really appreciate your time and Thank you. We hope that parents will contemplate some of the topics we’ve talked about today and think about how to have some conversations with their own kids.
Dr. Elizabeth Jeglic: It’s never too late. Like even though I, I recommend starting when they’re early, it’s never too late.
Um, you know, it might be uncomfortable at first, but you know, it’s one of those things. You just do it and it gets less com it gets more comfortable with time and it becomes more normative. So thank you so much for having me.
Kristina Supler: Thank you. Thank you.